Cheating and complicity

heledd · 18th December 2009, 12:37 PM

Today a dad who has been pestering for a few weeks for his child to come to school tried again. We are absolutely full but I said if he was prepared to take over the running of one of the playgroups once a week we would find his child a place. Ok. Settled. Then he said he already had the money from a sponsor for the fees. The money, 5,000 dalasis was in the hands of a Gambian here who would not hand it over until he had proof of fees, expenses etc. There followed very long and protracted negotiations. No way could we ever charge that much. So we tried to take the cost of everything, fees, (225 dalasis a YEAR!!) shoes, uniform (150 dalasis for two). We could even stretch to 2 dalasis a day for the child's 'lunch' - cooked by Maimuna, but even then could only come to just over 1,000 dalasis. Couldn't we say the shoes, uniform, etc were more expensive that that, etc? and he would 'donate' 500 dalaisis to us. No!. I understand his predicament - the money is there. But I thought the best way forward was just to explain to the donor (who was basing the amount on what charities normally charge for sponsorship) and he could decide what to do with any money left over. It's just so depressing. Why do people think the only solution is to cheat the donor? In the end, we couldn't take the child anyway, because he is over 7 (another argument then) but I would be interested what the head of the local Lower Basic does.

Grannystick · 18th December 2009, 12:46 PM

Its rather sad, the donor may have allowed them to have the money anyway.

heledd · 18th December 2009, 01:02 PM

He probably would have. I read the donors e mail to the guy and he was offering to lend him money for a jeep so he could start a taxi business. However, when I talked to the guy he said the donor was going to give him the money. I was wondering if there was a word in Mandinka for 'lend'. Must be.

Bodwick · 18th December 2009, 05:36 PM

Purposeful miscommunication. Taqiyya and kitman...

Misunderstanding maybe...

I've been down the taxi road years ago. Also the long range expedition route before terrorism stopped that.
Taxi purchase as a long term loan might work but is unlikely to succeed due to an ability to 'eat' every penny made. Even a firm business plan will be ignored.

There are also far too many taxi's chasing too few fares.

bruffdug · 26th December 2009, 01:58 PM

Hi I believe their are 2 mandinka words for lend "GIVE ME" alternatatly their is wollof for lend ,funnily enough its "GIVE ME."
Then the next time you meet the person it becaomes remember "THAT WHICH YOU PROMISED ME LAST TIME"
remember you are giving from the heart it will make you feel good.
funny that ,I thought I gave from my wallet!!!!!!!!
1000 Dalasi for fees food and uniform ,for me last year it was 2850 dalasi.
I will be looking for another school,then I was given the excuse I cant sent MAI the price of rice has gone up the school wants 1 dalasi 50 butahs a week extra,now I would only have to top up too the school a few hundred dalasi but NO, better not to send the child ,disgusts me

heledd · 6th January 2010, 07:54 PM

An update. The head of the local lower basic phoned me today, very worried, because this guy had told him I wanted him to co-operate. Suddenly, he has two children, and wanted the head to make out a receipt for 10,000 dalasis for a years schooling. He turned up in the jeep bought with the donors money but was 'desperate' for another 10,000 dalasis for something. The head gave him a telling off for his dishonesty. So then the guy wanted to 'borrow' the school's stamp so he could make out the receipt himself. It just beggars belief. Even if he had the money, I doubt if he would send the child to school.

Bodwick · 7th January 2010, 05:58 AM

That's a sad, all too common story Heledd...

Not happy with a car it's time to sort the Western Union cash supply by any means possible...

He sounds like he's getting excited by the prospect of money arriving for nothing. He's probably already eaten it...

Scudder · 7th January 2010, 09:45 PM

Hhhmmmm. I do wonder if we toubabs are to blame for this kind of behaviour. We go over there with all good intentions to help people less fortunate than ourselves and take away the need to earn money honestly and create an "I want more" mentality. We re-create the spoilt child syndrome...

heledd · 8th January 2010, 04:44 PM

Maybe. But I know the Head was quite disgusted with his behaviour, and so was the taxi driver who spoke to him, both locals. He kept saying 'I am a poor man' 'I am a poor man' Well yes. But so are most of Gambia. On the other hand, us Europeans don't take kindly to being warned about 'friends' who are conning us. We just refuse to believe it until the evidence is impossible to ignore.

Bodwick · 8th January 2010, 10:42 PM

I'd agree it's good advice to listen for any, and I mean ANY, warning bells.
From people telling you there is a problem to the small 'lies' that you catch out. All and many more signs that tell me something is wrong.

It's not just Gambia I've had 12 years employing UK retail staff and I can say categorically that there are plenty of thieves here that have the same operational practice and same sign's often show that all is not well.

It's always a shame to be conned on the long term as can happen. You can help and help but for some that's not enough. There is often a long term scam in action but hey, that's life. Just try not to lose thousands over a land scam which also applies Gambian to Gambian who often suffer just as badly from theft and con's. I don't think I can blame Brits who try and help for exasperating the problem. Unless they are there with illegal money making scams themselves then they deserve what they get.
Anyone running a legit business, paying taxes etc. deserves every support from genuine Gambians as they tread the difficult path through Gambia...

It's a tough old World. Keep your wits about you, your eye's wide open and don't believe anything just because it sounds good or easy.

Bodwick · 28th January 2010, 11:14 PM

I read this today and thought I'd post the story.

My bigamist boyfriend tricked me into marrying him in Africa - Mail

"He soon became involved in a range of fraudulent activities. Prosecutor Andrew Dallas said Jobe's case was one of 'sustained dishonesty, subterfuge and manipulation, met by fantastic explanations that don't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever'".

Scudder · 30th January 2010, 10:10 AM

Causing quite a stir on the other forum! Bet it gets removed soon!

Grannystick · 30th January 2010, 02:30 PM

How typical is that, I have a sleep in and miss what the deleted post said.

Bodwick · 30th January 2010, 04:07 PM

I also missed the deleted post. See what the weekend brings.

Grannystick · 30th January 2010, 05:03 PM

It was Scudders post. What did you say that was so bad Scudder? You are on the naughty step

18th December 2009, 12:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
heledd Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 166	Cheating and complicity Today a dad who has been pestering for a few weeks for his child to come to school tried again. We are absolutely full but I said if he was prepared to take over the running of one of the playgroups once a week we would find his child a place. Ok. Settled. Then he said he already had the money from a sponsor for the fees. The money, 5,000 dalasis was in the hands of a Gambian here who would not hand it over until he had proof of fees, expenses etc. There followed very long and protracted negotiations. No way could we ever charge that much. So we tried to take the cost of everything, fees, (225 dalasis a YEAR!!) shoes, uniform (150 dalasis for two). We could even stretch to 2 dalasis a day for the child's 'lunch' - cooked by Maimuna, but even then could only come to just over 1,000 dalasis. Couldn't we say the shoes, uniform, etc were more expensive that that, etc? and he would 'donate' 500 dalaisis to us. No!. I understand his predicament - the money is there. But I thought the best way forward was just to explain to the donor (who was basing the amount on what charities normally charge for sponsorship) and he could decide what to do with any money left over. It's just so depressing. Why do people think the only solution is to cheat the donor? In the end, we couldn't take the child anyway, because he is over 7 (another argument then) but I would be interested what the head of the local Lower Basic does.

18th December 2009, 05:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Bodwick Odd Bod... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sussex Posts: 521	Purposeful miscommunication. Taqiyya and kitman... Misunderstanding maybe... I've been down the taxi road years ago. Also the long range expedition route before terrorism stopped that. Taxi purchase as a long term loan might work but is unlikely to succeed due to an ability to 'eat' every penny made. Even a firm business plan will be ignored. There are also far too many taxi's chasing too few fares. __________________ "The civilized people have lost the aptitude of stillness, and must take lessons in silence from the wild." Isak Dinesen aka Karen Blixen

26th December 2009, 01:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
bruffdug Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 9	cheating Hi I believe their are 2 mandinka words for lend "GIVE ME" alternatatly their is wollof for lend ,funnily enough its "GIVE ME." Then the next time you meet the person it becaomes remember "THAT WHICH YOU PROMISED ME LAST TIME" remember you are giving from the heart it will make you feel good. funny that ,I thought I gave from my wallet!!!!!!!! 1000 Dalasi for fees food and uniform ,for me last year it was 2850 dalasi. I will be looking for another school,then I was given the excuse I cant sent MAI the price of rice has gone up the school wants 1 dalasi 50 butahs a week extra,now I would only have to top up too the school a few hundred dalasi but NO, better not to send the child ,disgusts me Last edited by bruffdug; 26th December 2009 at 02:25 PM..

7th January 2010, 05:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
Bodwick Odd Bod... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sussex Posts: 521	That's a sad, all too common story Heledd... Not happy with a car it's time to sort the Western Union cash supply by any means possible... He sounds like he's getting excited by the prospect of money arriving for nothing. He's probably already eaten it... __________________ "The civilized people have lost the aptitude of stillness, and must take lessons in silence from the wild." Isak Dinesen aka Karen Blixen Last edited by Bodwick; 7th January 2010 at 11:05 AM..

7th January 2010, 09:45 PM	#8 (permalink)
Scudder Scurrying Scud Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Berkshire, England Posts: 304	Hhhmmmm. I do wonder if we toubabs are to blame for this kind of behaviour. We go over there with all good intentions to help people less fortunate than ourselves and take away the need to earn money honestly and create an "I want more" mentality. We re-create the spoilt child syndrome... __________________ Scudder

18th December 2009, 12:46 PM	#2 (permalink)
Grannystick Potential Proscrastinator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 407	Its rather sad, the donor may have allowed them to have the money anyway.

18th December 2009, 01:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
heledd Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 166	He probably would have. I read the donors e mail to the guy and he was offering to lend him money for a jeep so he could start a taxi business. However, when I talked to the guy he said the donor was going to give him the money. I was wondering if there was a word in Mandinka for 'lend'. Must be.

6th January 2010, 07:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
heledd Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 166	An update. The head of the local lower basic phoned me today, very worried, because this guy had told him I wanted him to co-operate. Suddenly, he has two children, and wanted the head to make out a receipt for 10,000 dalasis for a years schooling. He turned up in the jeep bought with the donors money but was 'desperate' for another 10,000 dalasis for something. The head gave him a telling off for his dishonesty. So then the guy wanted to 'borrow' the school's stamp so he could make out the receipt himself. It just beggars belief. Even if he had the money, I doubt if he would send the child to school.

8th January 2010, 04:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
heledd Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 166	Maybe. But I know the Head was quite disgusted with his behaviour, and so was the taxi driver who spoke to him, both locals. He kept saying 'I am a poor man' 'I am a poor man' Well yes. But so are most of Gambia. On the other hand, us Europeans don't take kindly to being warned about 'friends' who are conning us. We just refuse to believe it until the evidence is impossible to ignore.

8th January 2010, 10:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Bodwick Odd Bod... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sussex Posts: 521	I'd agree it's good advice to listen for any, and I mean ANY, warning bells. From people telling you there is a problem to the small 'lies' that you catch out. All and many more signs that tell me something is wrong. It's not just Gambia I've had 12 years employing UK retail staff and I can say categorically that there are plenty of thieves here that have the same operational practice and same sign's often show that all is not well. It's always a shame to be conned on the long term as can happen. You can help and help but for some that's not enough. There is often a long term scam in action but hey, that's life. Just try not to lose thousands over a land scam which also applies Gambian to Gambian who often suffer just as badly from theft and con's. I don't think I can blame Brits who try and help for exasperating the problem. Unless they are there with illegal money making scams themselves then they deserve what they get. Anyone running a legit business, paying taxes etc. deserves every support from genuine Gambians as they tread the difficult path through Gambia... It's a tough old World. Keep your wits about you, your eye's wide open and don't believe anything just because it sounds good or easy. __________________ "The civilized people have lost the aptitude of stillness, and must take lessons in silence from the wild." Isak Dinesen aka Karen Blixen Last edited by Bodwick; 13th January 2010 at 04:07 PM..

28th January 2010, 11:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bodwick Odd Bod... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sussex Posts: 521	I read this today and thought I'd post the story. My bigamist boyfriend tricked me into marrying him in Africa - Mail "He soon became involved in a range of fraudulent activities. Prosecutor Andrew Dallas said Jobe's case was one of 'sustained dishonesty, subterfuge and manipulation, met by fantastic explanations that don't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever'". __________________ "The civilized people have lost the aptitude of stillness, and must take lessons in silence from the wild." Isak Dinesen aka Karen Blixen

30th January 2010, 10:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
Scudder Scurrying Scud Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Berkshire, England Posts: 304	Causing quite a stir on the other forum! Bet it gets removed soon! __________________ Scudder

30th January 2010, 02:30 PM	#13 (permalink)
Grannystick Potential Proscrastinator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 407	How typical is that, I have a sleep in and miss what the deleted post said.

30th January 2010, 04:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Bodwick Odd Bod... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sussex Posts: 521	I also missed the deleted post. See what the weekend brings. __________________ "The civilized people have lost the aptitude of stillness, and must take lessons in silence from the wild." Isak Dinesen aka Karen Blixen

30th January 2010, 05:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
Grannystick Potential Proscrastinator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 407	It was Scudders post. What did you say that was so bad Scudder? You are on the naughty step

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